Based on the Wondery podcast of the same name by Nikki Boyer, FX’s “Dying For Sex,” from writers and co-creators Kim Rosenstock  (“New Girl”) and Liz Meriwether (“New Girl,” “Bless This Mess,” “The Dropout”) is layered, moving and something of a miracle of a show.
As its title suggests, “Dying For Sex” is about a woman, Molly, played by four-time Oscar-winner Michelle Williams, who goes on an adventure to explore her sexual desires after being diagnosed with breast cancer. It’s part drama about mortality, part comedy about sexual awakening on the surface. But as the show progresses, her best friend, Nikki (Jenny Slate), encourages her to go on her sexual odyssey; the dramedy evolves into a moving love story between two friends, as Nikki stays by her side until the very end. Also part of the series are Rob Delaney, Kelvin Yu, David Rasche, Esco Jouléy and Sissy Spacek as Molly’s estranged mother.
“Dying For Sex” is very funny, very poignant, at times, very sad, and a deeply rich and moving human experience.
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As the show picks up steam and acclaim as it heads into Emmy season, we spoke to the co-creators, Rosenstock and Meriwether, all about “Dying For Sex,” working with Williams and Slate, including what’s coming next (in Meriwether’s case, an FBI serial killer drama starring Emmy Rossum). Here’s our whole conversation.
Let’s start at the beginning, the genesis of it all. It started from a podcast, but tell me how that turned into this wonderful, funny, heartbreaking show.
Liz Merriwether: I listened to the podcast and just got so excited about how tonally complicated it was, how the comedy came from the darkest places, and how these women used humor and friendship to make it survive. It just felt like such a new, scary, cool thing to try to do and pull off. I immediately became too busy with “The Dropout,” and I was ‘How am I going to do this??’ I called Kim because I’ve known her since our early ’20s and worked with her on “New Girl” for six years. This person will get this and get the tone, and she did.
Kim Rosenstock: When I listened to it, I had the same feeling as Liz, “Oh, this friendship inspires me. Also, I had never contemplated the idea that you could be dying and having a sexual awakening at the same time. And those two things were fascinating to me. I felt, ‘This is something I haven’t seen before.’ This feels like it could go in many different areas tonally, and we could talk about many other big ideas through this one story of this one woman, which felt very exciting.
READ MORE: The Greatest Television Programs Of The 21st Century #100-76Meriwether: And also, that sex could be a path to enlightenment. In a way, that felt like it was exploring sex in a way that felt new. It’s a chestnut of a story, but it felt like a new angle to a story about female pleasure, the female body and the female experience of sex.
What’s interesting here is the evolution of the entire story. It’s called “Dying For Sex.” It’s about mortality and sexual awakening on the surface, but by the end of it, I feel like it’s a beautiful love story between two friends.
Kim Rosenstock: Yeah, we always knew when we were setting out to adapt it that the friendship love story was the heart of the show and would be the overarching, emotional journey of the show if these two people were doing this together. There are many stories about sex and female friendship, and it’s been done well many times. We talked about all the movies that we love about female friendship, and it felt like this one—it’s such an extreme situation—and it felt like a new way of showing what it means to know someone and show up for them. The intimacy of this friendship was something I had never really seen before. When we listened to the podcast, the friendship transformed into something so profound that neither of us realized what would happen when they set out to make a podcast about Molly’s sexual adventures.
By the end, Nikki is in there, on her deathbed, sitting there recording this epiphany about what her entire life means, and it’s this profound love story between these two women.
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Meriwether:  We were both just building off that, struck by the decision of who you want to die with. It’s interesting because you think of a love story; it’s about who you want to live with. Who do you want to marry? Who do you want to have sex with? Make a family with?
And the particular question of, “Who do you want to die with?” It felt like, “Oh, I haven’t seen people on screen. Decide that and then stick to it. That felt like an area of friendship to explore. Because, yes, they’re friends, but there’s this incredibly intimate, incredibly personal, and physical thing to watching somebody die. It’s one of the most intimate things you can do with somebody. So, it felt like new territory to explore.
The theme I’m hearing is what you’ve never seen on screen and how that’s a big inspiration.
Meriwether: I mean, it scared me so much. So, yeah, I’m looking for something I haven’t seen before. And when you engage with something that feels like uncharted territory, it’s scary because you’re “Oh my God,” and this one scared me, which I loved about it. I think it scared others. I talk to people and friends, “Have you seen the show? And friends are, “Oh my God. Am I going to watch this show that goes to these places?” But that’s what makes it funnier and more emotional; it goes to some of the scariest, most uncomfortable places that we as humans have: our death and our sexual pleasure, told with naked honesty.
Rosenstock: We both look for comedy in unexpected places and this checks that box. When you listen to the podcast, their humor is so specific and clear immediately, along with the question of who you want to die with. It’s who, who makes you laugh, who makes you feel joy, and this story, while it thought it was dealing with all these big, heavy things, also thought it was such a, such a there was it had such an opportunity for a comedy. And again,  against this backdrop of death and illness,  to make a show that could be funny in the midst of that, human beings are funny in the face of these things every day. I felt another reason to make it was that it would approach these topics humorously, and according to Liz’s words. Also, that is how you get the audience to come along. And that’s just what we were excited to go to. We both had written on new girls’ sitcoms, these shows that end, and everything’s okay at the end of every episode. And, to make a show where everything is never okay at any moment in any of the episodes, but it can still be so funny throughout. I felt very excited.
We know Michelle Williams is excellent, right? And she’s the perfect anchor for this. But Jenny Slate blew me away in this. This is the best thing she’s ever done. And I was floored by her and the chemistry they had. She took me by surprise, I admit.
Rosenstock: Well, “Obvious Child” is fantastic, and Jenny is incredible in that movie; you can see her impressive range. She is a powerhouse actress on every level and a singular, brilliant comedian. I wouldn’t say I was surprised, but I kept being blown away by her every single day. And yes, the chemistry is a massive part of the show. That friendship must feel like these people have been best friends for 20 years. They have a shorthand, and they finish each other’s sentences. It was incredible to see Michelle and Jenny, who had never really known or worked together before, have that from the jump; it felt pretty miraculous in many ways.
It’s been a minute, and I’ve forgotten it a bit, but you’re right, “Obvious Child” is great, and Jenny is terrific in it.
Meriwether:  I also loved “Obvious Child,” but Jenny read it, and it spoke to her. She said she would come in and read and audition, and I remember both of us were like, “Oh my God. This is it,” and yeah, she blew us away. Somebody of her caliber doesn’t necessarily have to come in to read. So, it allowed us to see the chemistry with Michelle and her in the room.
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As a four-time Oscar-nominated actress, Michelle Williams is obviously outstanding. I love her, but comedy is not something we necessarily know here for.
Meriwether: A throwback: I loved her in “Dick,” which is one of my favorite movies. It was strange for me just on set, going up to her with jokes. I was like, “I can’t believe I’m about to walk up to Michelle Williams and pitch her a dumb dick joke,” or something. She wanted them too! But there was a moment when I was, “Oh my God.” But she was so open to it and game. And I feel both of them- the show wouldn’t have worked if they hadn’t been so brave and fearless. They jumped right in.
Rosenstock: Their vulnerability, too. Both of them aren’t afraid to just be really open and emotionally very present. And neither of them knows any other way. And it was beautiful.
Meriwether: Moreover, both are okay, being uncomfortable and just trying things, which is the mark of somebody excellent because they’re not afraid to fail. They’re not afraid to be uncomfortable and jump, take, take the leap; it inspired me so many times that working with brave actors makes you better writers because you’re okay; “I need to match them where they are.” And I wish I could tell you we had all the episodes written before we started shooting, but that’s not true. We did not.
So, do you have to take some creative license here, and how is this true to the real story? I assume the woman lives at the end of the podcast, but I don’t know.
Meriwether: Oh no, no, no. That’s one of the most amazing things in the podcast: she dies, and she is talking to Nikki up until the end, and so you’re hearing her, very close to her death, talking about the experience. We were so sure going into it that we wanted to take that final episode of the podcast and get the feeling you had listening to it on screen. We knew what had happened and talked to Nikki Boyer in real life, who’s still obviously with us. So, it was trying to ensure we got many details about what happened in Molly’s last moments.
Rosenstock: Sorry if this is a spoiler for you [laughs]. She dies! But we always saw the podcast as a jumping-off point, especially in the beginning, and then as we kept working on it, we kept coming back to it, over and over again. The real story felt like a very sacred text. By the end of it, the answers were always there in the real story. If we were ever lost or didn’t know emotionally what should happen, we would call Nikki Boyer, or if we needed a detail, she was so open and generous with her time to talk to us anytime we needed to about what happened.
But much was invented, too. We created many characters and returned to the beginning, knowing this would be a love story of their friendship. We also knew we needed to make a whole character for Nikki and have her journey as a caretaker working alongside Molly’s journey as the patient. So, we took a lot of creative license with the story; we structured it very differently from the podcast. We made it a rom-com for a few episodes and a love story between her and her neighbor. The honest Molly really wanted to have that connection with somebody, but sadly, she died before that fully came to fruition. And so we wanted to give her the fictional character, which the real person couldn’t have. And that was something that we were very excited about doing, just because we love rom-coms. We have Rob Delaney, the most amazing performer and fantastic person at this tone, so we were fortunate to get him to do that part.
I just wanted to ask what you guys are doing next because I know Liz that you’re doing a show with Emmy Rossum, and I would love to hear about anything else you guys are doing next because I’m just so excited to see more of this lane again; this lane of comedy in very dramatic, emotionally resonant situations.
Meriwether: I don’t know if my next show is in that lane, to be honest. It’s about a female FBI agent who is trying to catch a serial killer. They have had similar experiences with violence and just their being women in the world and having been victims of violence themselves…I would say that there is less comedy in it. But I am still me, and I expect comedy to be unexpected, so I continue to be interested in challenging tones. And so we’ll see what happens.
Oh, right! It’s based on Bob Rafelson’s “Black Widow,” so the serial killer is a woman, too.
Meriwether: Yeah, it’s Emmy Rossum, and we haven’t cast the other women, but it’s a cat-and-mouse thriller.
Ahh, okay, because I talked to Amanda Seyfried, and she said she would be working with you next. So, I thought maybe we would be the killer.
Meriwether: Yeah, she was going to be the lead, but the schedules didn’t work out. So, yeah, but yeah, Emmy Rossum is amazing, and now we’re currently trying to cast our killer.
Rosenstock: Weirdly but wonderfully, I’m working on this Ryan Murphy show with the incredible writer Connor Hines on something called “American Love Story.” It’s this JFK, Jr., Carolyn Bessette love story show. Liz has gone full murder, and I’ve gone full romance. And we’ll meet back up in the middle one day.
Please do so because I love this show, and I’ve been recommending it to all my friends, particularly all my female gfs, and I’ve had nothing but tremendous feedback.
Meriwether: That’s amazing. I can’t get some of my best friends to watch! [laughs]
Kim:
Rosenstock: I have friends who say, “I got to episode six and know what’s happening, so I’m just not watching the last two.” I’m like, “You should watch the last two!” [laughs]
“Dying For Sex” is now available to watch in its entirety on Hulu.