[Editor’s note: The following contains major spoilers for Season 4 of The Bear.]

Summary

Marcus’s journey in ‘The Bear’ culminates in meaningful recognition, showcasing his talent and growth in the culinary world.

Lionel Boyce co-wrote an episode of Season 4 with Ayo Edebiri, emphasizing the collaborative and creative atmosphere of ‘The Bear’s production.

The show’s intense and chaotic kitchen scenes are balanced by the camaraderie among the cast, mirroring the dynamics explored on screen.

In Season 4 of the FX series The Bear, Carmen “Carmy” Berzatto (Jeremy Allen White) continued to push forward in taking the restaurant to the next level. All the dreams, opportunities, and talent in the world don’t matter if you can’t keep the doors open, and their love for each other won’t stop the countdown clock that serves as a reminder of when their financing will run out. So, while the team, including Sydney (Ayo Edebiri), Richie (Ebon Moss-Bachrach), Marcus (Lionel Boyce), Tina (Liza Colón-Zayas) and Sugar (Abby Elliott), does everything they can to adapt and adjust in order to make things work, Carmy makes a personal decision that will not only alter his own path, but change things for everyone moving forward. As the pastry chef at The Bear, Marcus Brooks started as a baker at The Beef before testing his creativity to create unique desserts. From there, he traveled to Copenhagen to learn new skills alongside Chef Luca (Will Poulter), who’s now circled back to Chicago to work alongside him again. When every second counts, Marcus strives to achieve bites of true perfection, which ultimately gets him recognized by Food & Wine magazine. Collider got the opportunity to chat with Boyce about all things The Bear and why he’s happy for Marcus. During the one-on-one interview, he talked about whether he’s a dessert guy himself and if they get to eat the ones on set, what led to him co-writing an episode this season with Edebiri, bonding with his work family, having Sugar’s baby add to the chaos in the kitchen, the bromance between Marcus and Luca and why he’s loved working with Poulter, shooting the big group scene under the table at the wedding, whether the moment with Marcus flipping off Richie was scripted, if he’s heard anything about a possible Season 5, and how he just wants to keep being involved in the various aspects of storytelling.
Lionel Boyce Feels Good About Where Things With Marcus are Left in Season 4 of ‘The Bear’

“You still have to reckon with what happens in your personal life.”

Collider: How do you feel about where things are left, by the end of this season? How do you feel about Marcus’ journey, from where he started to where he is now, after the events that happened this season? LIONEL BOYCE: I feel good. This journey that he’s kicked off since Season 1, finding his passion and finding his thing manifests and comes to fruition in a big way, a way that you daydream about. He gets this recognition in a national way. No matter what happens on the work side, this show constantly reminds you that despite what happens on the work side, you still have to reckon with what happens in your personal life. I feel happy for him, but I’m also like, “Okay, now what are you going to do about real life?” Are you able to watch and enjoy the show, or are you someone who is always questioning and nitpicking your own performance and the choices that you made? BOYCE: I don’t need to watch myself. There’s a separation of, “That guy is in the show doing whatever.” That keeps the stakes low because I like and enjoy watching the show. I’m seeing everyone else’s high praise, and then I’m just like, “Yeah, okay, cool.” As soon he’s off camera, I can get back to enjoying it. I try not to think of myself as much, I just think about it like, I’m playing a part in helping this story being told. The moment you get into nitpicking what you’re doing, I won’t be able to enjoy watching it. It’s just a slippery slope, because I think everyone is constantly thinking about how they can be better and how they can do better. It’s designed to seek perfection and seek how you can improve. I think there are some people who can just sit back and be like, “Well, I did a really good job.” I don’t know if I’m a person who can do that. The best case scenario for me is to net neutral and just ignore me.

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Please, don’t do any more.

I love Marcus because I love desserts far more than I should. I can absolutely respect someone who puts such small and tasty perfection on a plate. Before doing the series, were you a dessert and pastry guy? Is it challenging to do scenes where you’re perfecting these beautiful little desserts while also trying to deliver dialogue, and also not get to eat anything? BOYCE: I follow suit. But I would disagree with you, you can never love it too much. I’ve always loved desserts. I’ve always been into pastries, donuts, cakes, and everything. I think it’s a joy. The only time I have a problem with it is when they have the desserts that aren’t real, that are just designed to look good and be a prop there, and I just want to eat that one. And sometimes they bring a real one in and I get to finish it, but then I can’t eat that either because they need it for the rest of the day. Those are the only times it’s hard. But for the most part, there are usually backups and extras, and when we’re done with the scene, they’re like, “Okay, we can eat it.” And then, it’s a race to get it before everybody else does. There are a lot of cool pastry chefs that I’ve come across on Instagram, and you see the things that they’re making, and I’m like, “That is incredible.” That’s eight hours, just for me to devour it in 30 seconds because I have no restraint.
Lionel Boyce Enjoyed the Opportunity to Co-Write a Season 4 Episode of ‘The Bear’ With Ayo Edebiri

“I felt reluctant initially just because this show has so many good writers.”

Image via FX Networks

How did you come to write an episode for Season 4? Were you having conversations or thinking about doing that at all before the possibility happened, or was it something that just happened? BOYCE: It was closer to something that just happened. This show has got a machine that seems to be working exactly right with me playing this part. It came about from Ayo [Edebiri]. She directed last season and she called me up telling me, “I think I’m going to write an episode for this season,” and she was laying it out. She was like, “Tell me what you think about this. I just want someone to tell me if they think this idea is great or not.” And so, she got into it and I was like, “Wow, this is a really good idea.” I told her why I liked it, and it opened up this whole conversation where we just went back and forth for a bit. And then, when we got off the phone, she texted me like, “Hey, do you want to write this with me? LOL” That opened the door. I felt reluctant initially just because this show has so many good writers. The writing is great to me. The bar is already high. There are expectations to live up to. All those things are just ancillary things that are fear and not real. I was like, “Okay, this seems fun. This seems like a cool thing to do, and it’s a risk in a different kind of way.” I enjoyed the process. I’ve written for myself and made things with my friends, so I saw it as a different kind of challenge that was cool. I’ve never really been in a writers’ room on shows and written for other projects, let alone something that people already love. That was how I got into it, and then we went through the process. I really enjoyed getting to make this episode with my friend. When she presented the idea to you for this episode, did she say, “And it’s going to start with a clip of Whoopi Goldberg in Jumpin’ Jack Flash? How did that idea come about? BOYCE: That wasn’t at the start of the idea. It started at home because it’s her day off. That came from us thinking about, what is Syd’s home life like? What would she doing? We were asking all these questions. That was an Ayo decision because Ayo loves Whoopi. That’s such a great clip. That was the perfect decision, if you ask me. What was it like to then hand the episode you’d written over to the director? Is that a different kind of nervousness? BOYCE: Every step of the way is nerve-wracking for me. Talking about it with (creator) Chris [Storer], getting on the phone and telling him about the idea, at every moment, I was waiting for him to be like, “Lionel, what on Earth are you thinking?” In my mind, that’s how it was going to go, with him telling me to get away. So, it was nerve-wracking but also exciting. Everyone wanted to collaborate and throw out ideas and build off of it, at every step. It’s cool seeing how it takes a new form at every step, with so many different people. There was Chris, and then (director) Janicza [Bravo] came on board and it was in her hands. She took it and let it evolve into the next form that it needed to be. When you were in the process of writing that episode together, did you ever disagree about anything? When you’re working with a friend, how do you handle that? BOYCE: We mostly agreed on the ideas. Especially when it comes to the character, the fun thing of being on the show as well, if there were certain decisions that we were thinking differently on, we’d either come up with a different solution or I would be like, “Well, you know the character better than me, so I’m sure you’re closer to the right answer than me on that.” I understand the need to be aware of the reality of the restaurant running out of money, but having a countdown there just seems so stressful. Are you someone who likes to work under pressure? Would you be down to have a timer set to get through scenes when you’re shooting something, or are you just glad that you don’t have to work that way? BOYCE: I’m glad I don’t have to work that way. Sometimes we have to work that way and there’s nothing you can do about it. But I don’t choose to work that way, under any circumstance. If there was a timer on the scene, I would probably constantly flub everything. I prefer to keep stakes low, personally. When it’s for the benefit of somebody else, I can set myself aside, like a team sport kind of thing. The pressure to help you will help me rise to the occasion. But for myself, I operate best when you keep the stakes low and there’s not such a chokehold on things. There’s a statement made this season that sometimes your work family is closer to you than your family-family. That’s obviously the case among these characters. Would you say the same is true for you guys as a cast? What has it been like to share this experience with this specific group of actors? BOYCE: Yeah. It’s been great. You spend so much time with one another. With any workspace, you’re seeing these people for an eight-hour window. In film and production, it’s longer than that and it’s every single day. The real moments when you gel with people are when you’re not talking and you’re just sitting there quietly. This thing happens between the people who are there because you run out of things to talk about and you’re not catching up, but you’re just saying your thoughts in real time. That’s when someone really understands who you are in the immediate moment. Because everyone likes being around each other, we get to that place of just sitting around and being silent amongst each other. There’s another world where you can’t stand the person you’re around, so the moment you’re done shooting, you go sit in your trailer and you’re not getting to that place. But every year on this show, instead of sitting in our trailer, we sit on set. If we get there early, we hang out just shoot the shit with each other.

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I love Sugar bringing Sophie into the kitchen to meet everybody. As if the kitchen is not chaotic enough, why not just bring a baby there? She trusts Marcus with holding her, even though she doesn’t trust Neil and Ted to do so. What was it like to add a baby to some of the scenes this season? And why do you think Sugar trusts Marcus in that way? BOYCE: A baby and an animal do the same thing, where they command attention. Everyone must bend to them. You have no choice. You can’t ignore it. It shifts the energy in the room, whether you want it to or not. I think that’s cool because it’s bringing something new and bringing everyone closer to being present. And she trusts Marcus because he’s responsible. He’s a trustworthy, reliable person. He hasn’t given any signs to show otherwise. Everybody knows, whether it’s a close family member or not, who can and can’t hold your baby. There are some people you just won’t get in a car with.
Lionel Boyce on Why He Loves the Marcus and Luca Dynamic in Season 4 of ‘The Bear’

“It’s similar to Carmy and Marcus.”

Image via FX Networks

I also love the bromance between Marcus and Luca. There’s something about the two of them together that’s just so easy and fun. What did you love most about their relationship this season, and what have you enjoyed about working with Will Poulter? BOYCE: What I love about the dynamic, especially this season, is that it’s similar to Carmy and Marcus. You’re watching this person who, rather than being a teacher-student dynamic, is a peer. You’re getting to see these people share conversations in a way that friends do. The dynamic is even. What’s cool about it is that these people are embracing and respecting Marcus as someone who is on their level. His growth in his work and his work ethic is bringing about this certain level of respect. And Will is one of the nicest people. He’s just awesome. He’s cool to hang around. He’s a conduit. I thought it was just him and Marcus that were really getting along, but it’s that way with everyone. He’s just that kind of magnetic person. He can have a scene with a rock and you’ll be like, “Wow, Will and this rock are best friends.” It must be intimidating and a bit nerve-wracking to walk onto this show, but he’s been a natural fit with everybody. BOYCE: Yeah, he’s disarming, and I think it’s because he’s a kind and intentional and curious person. You talk to this person and they’re making eye contact and actually engaging in the conversation. You’re like, “This person is cool. I don’t mind hanging with him.” Marcus, in particular, has been the heart in the center of the craziness that goes on in this restaurant. I can see how customers go to a restaurant to relax, but there’s nothing relaxing about what goes on in the kitchen. How do you think Marcus always finds the Zen that he needs to create his desserts? Are you someone who, in the middle of chaos, can get yourself to that place of Zen? BOYCE: That is a quality that I think I share with Marcus. One of the things that Chris saw and was like, “This is why I think this person would be right for this role,” is that my mind can work best when it’s surrounded by chaos. I like being in the eye of the storm When tere’s a lot going on, my mind keeps working to stay focused, so it’s that much easier. If you put me in a blank room with nothing on my mind, it will go anywhere and everywhere, and I’ll get nothing done. Marcus has that composure. He can keep it together, and he can glue and meld himself, and focus on what he actually needs to do. He learned that the hard way in Season 1. I think I have just always been like that. That’s been easier for me than the other way around.

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For the fourth time with feeling: Yes chef!

What was it like to shoot the big group scene at the wedding with everyone under the table sharing what they’re most afraid of? BOYCE: It was fun. It was practical. They got a table and they just had us all get under there. We all said, “Are we going to fit? How does this make sense?” It was just a really long table. We were like, “Wow, this works. Cool.” It felt like Honey, I Shrunk the Kids, in a cool way, where it was just practical sets and not CGI or cutting magic. We were just all there. How did you feel about Marcus making Food & Wine magazine’s list of Best New Chefs? Was that moment when Richie calls him Best New Dickhead and then Marcus flips him off all scripted? Did you know how that was going to play out? BOYCE: Him winning that was in the script. It was such a cool reward payoff moment because it’s Marcus. He hasn’t had a good win in a while, so it felt earned. You just want to see this person get another win, so in that moment, it felt really cool. What was special about that was that it brought you back to the beginning and Carmy and Marcus’ relationship. And then, Richie threw that line out. I flipped him off because Ebon [Moss-Bachrach] is good at always finding great moments. He’s one of the best actors. He’s constantly just doing things. I’m always like, “How do you think of these things, all the time?” So, he did that, and it brought me back to the beginning. In episodes one and two of Season 1, they had this playful banter where they would just give each other shit. I like that moment so much because it reminded me of that. They haven’t had that as much through the rest of the series because they’ve gone on separate journeys and have had so much other stuff going on. It was just really cool. That’s family too. Family keeps your feet on the ground. That’s what you do with your family, you give them shit because that’s the ultimate form of love. You’re not going to say something sweet to your brother or sister. You’re going to give them shit because it’s too much to be too nice. How did you react to the way the season ended? After Sydney decided to stay, I thought we would at least be in the clear until the end of the season, but then Carmy revealed he would be leaving. What was it like to read the script and find out about that? BOYCE: I remember reading the script and being like, “This is amazing. This is crazy.” I love when things are human and it’s not just a clean, perfect circle where things work out. That’s what being human is. Two things can exist at the same time. You can come to a conclusion that you feel is the right thing, and two different people can feel that they’re each doing the right thing, and neither is right or wrong. It’s just human. That’s the world we live in. That’s what the world is. It’s a bunch of people walking around with complete ideas of things.
’The Bear’s Lionel Boyce on How Marcus Could React to Carmy’s Decision in the Season 4 Finale

“I just wonder what happens from here.”

Image via FX Networks

How do you think Marcus will react when he finds out what’s going on? BOYCE: I have no idea. That’s a good question. I asked the same thing. I was like, “I wonder what Marcus will think about this when he finds out.” The person who pushed him in this direction, I wonder what the dynamic of that conversation will be between those two because that’s such a big thing. Carmy makes a choice for his personal life, but what does that mean? They don’t tell us anything beyond what we see. Every season, after I read the finale, I’m like, “Wow, that’s crazy. This is what I think is going to happen.” Then, we get new scripts and I was just completely wrong. So now, I just wonder what happens from here. It’s cool because that situation felt like it came to a conclusion. Those are the best endings of a season. They reached a conclusion, but now I can think about and fantasize about eight different directions for it to go in.

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Anytime a show is successful and popular with people, there’s speculation about whether there will be more episodes. It seemed like Season 3 might be the last season, but then you did a Season 4. Have there been conversations about a Season 5? Do you know anything? BOYCE: They don’t tell me anything. I find it’s easier to not ask questions. I’m like, “You don’t have to tell me anything. That way, I don’t have to worry about it.” I don’t know. I have no idea. As long as you feel like you’re telling the story you want to tell, wherever you decide that ends, I’m cool with it. Has this inspired you to want to write more? Do you want to try directing? Do you want to get more involved in all aspects? BOYCE: Since I started doing this, I’ve been enjoying all parts of it. I was writing with my friends. We did the Loiter Squad sketch comedy show. Then, I did an animated show (The Jellies) for Adult Swim. That side of it, generating ideas for myself and with my friends, I don’t think will go away. I want to make shows, movies, and everything. I look at it like a Swiss Army knife, where I have different aspirations for different ideas. I don’t think about it like, “Oh, I want to do this for this project.” I’m like, “This seems like a cool idea. Where do I make the most sense for this idea?” Whether it’s writing, acting or, maybe at some point, directing, who knows? As long as I get to make things that exist, that’s good enough for me.

The Bear

Release Date

June 23, 2022

Network

Hulu

Showrunner

Christopher Storer

Directors

Ramy Youssef

Writers

Catherine Schetina, Alex Russell, Karen Joseph Adcock, Sofya Levitsky-Weitz, Stacy Osei-Kuffour

The Bear is available to stream on Hulu. Check out the Season 4 trailer: