The “rom-com” often gets a bad name, but the truth is that many of the greatest writers, directors, and stars built their reputations in the popular subgenre. Celine Song’s latest movie, Materialists, is an excellently crafted take on the genre, from its simple, effective approach to the beautiful cinematography; from the space it creates for great actors to explore and breathe life into their characters, to its deeper meaning and powerful messaging. Celine Song honored and learned from the greats of the past while forging a distinct addition to the genre for today. Her intentions and messaging run deep, however, with ideas baked into the star-studded film that evoke powerful philosophic and even religious concepts. When I had the chance to sit down with Song, we got right to the ‘heart’ of things rather quickly. George Edelman I wanted to ask about the way that class and wealth play into the film. It starts with people who have little to nothing, and they’re trading goods for marriage, right? Then we’re dealing with this monetization of every second of our lives. Celine Song I was working as a matchmaker, which is sort of the inspiration for the whole thing. I worked as a matchmaker for about six months in my 20s because I needed to pay rent. I was a playwright at the time, and something that really struck me on that job was the language of commodity; that we talked about it like stock or merchandise. That is the only way that people were able to describe somebody that they wished to love. The gap between those two things was so startling, because I knew what love actually feels like. I know what love actually could be. So for it to be talked about in terms of numbers…. Height, weight, income, age… These are the kinds of things that my clients were asking me to consider. The character Sophie says, “I’m not merchandise, I’m a person.” Throughout the film, it’s about Lucy/Dakota Johnson recognizing that this objectification and commodification of human beings will eventually lead to dehumanization. George Edelman And it’s beautiful. It’s a deeply Marxist text. Celine Song You know, you’re the first person to interview me who said that, and that makes me appreciate you, and I’m going to remember this forever because of that. I’m so happy! I’ve been wondering who’s going to bring that up.

A24

George Edelman That’s an honor. You said something, “I know what love is.” Can you elaborate on that idea of love being beyond the math and the ability to crack the code or fix the results? Celine Song I think about when they say, “Love makes fools of us all.” Love is the one human domain where, no matter how much the market and the world demand it, you actually cannot game it or turn it into numbers. A lot of religions, when they’re talking about love, there is so much language built into the way they talk about the divine as letting go of control. It is still quite divine, human-to-human love. There’s something that’s quite divine and very holy in the thing that we’re doing. It’s also an ancient mystery. George Edelman There’s a moment where John (Chris Evans) says, “I’m a beggar for you,” that really sticks out, because he can’t control it. He’s a victim of love. Celine Song Love makes victims of all of us, or makes losers of all of us, right? You’re supposed to lose. That’s what he’s doing. He’s saying it’s not up to him. It’s not up to him what he feels. So, in that way, it’s easy. But I think that is what makes love feel impossible, which is something that Harry expresses, too. Harry says it feels impossible. It feels like it’s the most difficult thing in the world. It’s because all of us are trying to control and dominate every single aspect of our lives. We’re used to dominating and controlling and owning.

Related

‘Materialists’ Forges Its Own Path in the Rom-Com Genre … Until It Doesn’t

Celine Song’s sophomore film confidently charts its own path as a rom-com, only to ultimately fall for the genre’s tropes — but was that the point?

George Edelman I wanted to talk about Pedro Pascal, because Harry is the unicorn. Pascal is on such a tear right now, and it reminds me of this thing with Cary Grant, when he famously said, “Even I’m no Cary Grant.” I started to wonder if Pedro Pascal is reaching this point a little bit, where he thinks, ‘This thing I’ve become is bigger than me.’ Celine Song I know exactly what you’re talking about. And I think that this is something that all three of my actors and I think, even beyond that, I think most very successful actors understand, and most very famous people understand. [It goes back to] that thing that the character of Sophie says, where she goes, “I’m not merchandise. I’m a person.” Because you’re saying like, well, there’s a Pedro Pascal, the merchandise, yes, and then there is a Pedro Pascal, the person. The same thing could apply to Dakota [Johnson], and, of course, Chris [Evans], too, right? Chris has been merchandise for so much of his career, literally. I think that all three of them just understood and felt deeply connected to the story and the characters, because they all understand this. Throughout the film, there are a few keywords that stand out. One is ‘valuable’ and the other is ‘perfect.’ George Edelman That’s a great line in the wedding scene early in the film. The bride-to-be says, “He makes me feel valuable.” Celine Song I think that the fact that the person feels valuable in place of feeling loved is what we’re talking about. It’s a miracle when love happens, but it is not in our control. We can’t buy it. It’s easier to try to feel valuable. Because it feels like you could maybe pay for that. Maybe we could game it, spend money on it, or do something, so that we can have control.
George Edelman You have added so much to the depth of this movie, even though I thought I saw all this depth already. There was even more! Celine Song There is also the word ‘perfect’ too. My thing is, I think Harry, no matter what shape he’s in, is perfect, but I think that that is not going to be felt until he feels it for himself. I think that’s true about Lucy, too. Lucy has to accept that she is perfect as she is, and not see herself as an object in the marketplace. George Edelman Right, both Lucy and Harry are heavily invested in themselves as elements in a marketplace. They’ve both invested in their product. Celine Song Exactly. I think it is easier for John because he’s so outside the value system. He sort of falls out of it. In the trio, he’s the person who has the least power in those ways. Because of that, he’s probably the person who feels the most worthless in a worldly way, so I think that it is maybe a little bit easier for him to surrender.

Related

‘Materialists’ Director’s Next Project Is Another Unexpected Genre-Shift That Hails From ‘The Last of Us’

The Oscar-nominated director has set her sights on her next project with a surprising new setting.

George Edelman I’m starting to think that part of what you’re saying is, the deeper you get into commodifying and creating these kinds of value attributes, like with Harry, the harder it is to get to the actual surrender of love, because you’re so used to everything being controllable and bought and sold, right? And the other two characters are closer to it, because in their hearts, they know love already. Celine Song Because they have felt that for each other at some point. Yeah, that’s what she says. Harry says, “I just don’t think that I’m capable of love.” And Lucy says, “It’ll be easy when you meet someone who will inspire that in you.” In a way that one might be inspired by art or one might be inspired by music. I think that’s what love is like. Sometimes you’re just inspired by it. George Edelman You can’t always quantify why you like it or love it. You just do. Celine Song You just do. If I asked you, “Why do you love your wife?” You would not say a single number to me. You won’t be like, “It’s because she’s this age.” You know what I mean? What happened to “in sickness, and in health”? George Edelman Right! Thank you so much for taking the time. It’s a wonderful movie and I hope you make many more! Celine Song I will! Thank you so much! Materialists is in theaters now.

Materialists

Release Date

June 13, 2025

Runtime

117 minutes

Director

Celine Song

Writers

Celine Song

Producers

Christine Vachon, Pamela Koffler, David Hinojosa