[Editor’s Note: The following contains spoilers for The Conjuring: Last Rites]

Summary

Collider’s Perri Nemiroff interviews director Michael Chaves for The Conjuring: Last Rites.

The fourth film in the Warren saga teases an end to Vera Farmiga and Patrick Wilson’s turn as the demonologist couple.

In this interview, Chaves discusses scene changes, pulling off that franchise reunion, and reflects on his career across four films in The Conjuring canon.

The Conjuring: Last Rites is bringing the universe to a close (for now, at least) after a decade of providing scares on the screen with the release of the fourth mainline film in The Conjuring series. As fans prepare to say farewell to Patrick Wilson and Vera Farmiga’s Ed and Lorraine Warren and their depictions of the real-life supernatural cases the Warrens worked on, there are also plenty of people behind the camera who are preparing for an emotional goodbye as well. One of these creatives is director Michael Chaves, who returned to direct Last Rites after directing previous entries in the franchise, including The Curse of La Llorona, The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do It, and The Nun 2. In an interview with Collider’s Perri Nemiroff ahead of Last Rites’ release, the director reflects on some behind-the-scenes challenges that were presented in the universe’s final chapter, including the decision to cast a younger Ed and Lorraine, a practical mirror room, and getting everyone on board for a Conjuring reunion for a key scene. Chaves also discusses how working on the universe has impacted his career, and how the recent sale of the Warrens’ house and museum makes him feel.
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Michael Chaves talks The Conjuring: Last Rites.
Image by Jefferson Chacon

PERRI NEMIROFF: Four films later, man. Congratulations! MICHAEL CHAVES: Perri, how are you doing? Oh my gosh. I’m always happy to see your face. The first question I have for you is a big burning one about the very beginning of the movie. Nowadays, something that we see used quite frequently is de-aging technology, and you opted not to go that route. You cast two other actors to play a younger Ed and Lorraine, and they were exceptional. They absolutely nail it. So, I need to know, what was it like coming to the conclusion that that was the way to do that sequence? CHAVES: Great question, and I wish I could take credit for it. It wasn’t me. The script started off in a great place. David Leslie Johnson wrote it. It was amazing. We stuck to the majority of it. The only thing, the big thing, was the opening. It wasn’t that scene. It was a different scene. It was kind of a joke, like a joke scene, and everyone was like, “We’ve got to tackle that. We’ve got to make it scarier. We got to do something.” So, I actually came in with the idea of that. I gave the whole pitch, the birth scene, all the way to the end, and then the first question was, “Okay, how are you gonna do young Ed and Lorraine?” I naturally jumped on it, and I’m like, “De-aging, of course! That’s the way you gotta do.” And everyone nodded, because it was, like, that was the right answer. So, we got into it. We’re prepping the movie, and I’m going through it, and there are all these kinds of great technologies evolving with AI and all these great companies. Obviously, there’s been some hits and misses, and so you’re hoping that this is gonna be a hit. And as we’re going into it, I’m starting to get a little uncomfortable with it, but I couldn’t admit it, because I made the pitch to the studio, and I’m like, “Oh, we’ve got to do the de-aging. We’ve got to make this work.” It was actually Vera who came to me, and she was like, “I think you should just cast some younger actors.” At first, I was kind of panicked, because people love Patrick and Vera. To open a Conjuring movie without Patrick and Vera in a scene like this, I think it definitely brings up some concerns. But in my gut, I knew she was totally right. I’ve gone back, and I’m like, “Vera, you saved the movie. You totally saved the movie.” It was absolutely the right call. I’ve got to also give my amazing wife credit. She actually cast those roles of Madison [Lawlor] and Orion [Smith]. That was our only US casting, and she did such a great job finding them. They just knocked that scene out of the park. I’m so proud of that scene, and so proud of their work in it.
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Mia Tomlinson as Judy Warren in The Conjuring: Last Rites
Image Via Warner Bros.

To take a look at all of the big set pieces that come after, going into filming, which single one did you think was going to be the most challenging for you to pull off, and ultimately, was that the toughest of the bunch or did a different one catch you by surprise? CHAVES: The one I was most excited about, but also wary about, was the mirror room scene. That was also another one where, originally, when I was going into it, I was like, “I’d love to do this practically, but is it two-way glass?” Then as we were getting into it, there were a lot of people that had actually worked on X-Men: First Class, and if you remember in that movie, there is actually a mirror room scene where Magneto and the villain go into it. Basically, that mirror room scene was all CG. That was all digi-doubles, and so the mirror effect, they shot on a blue screen. So, the entire art department was saying they worked on that movie, and they were like, “We tried it with a two-way glass. It doesn’t work. There are so many problems with it. This is basically the way they did it.” I love that movie, and I think that Matthew Vaughn’s got great instincts. I’m like, “Maybe that is the way to do it. Maybe we do it like with digi-doubles.” But in my gut, it was like, “I don’t know if a blue screen set piece for a Conjuring movie is gonna be right.” Again, it’s like I was just struggling. It was ultimately Eli Born, my DP, who was like, “Let’s just do it.” And he actually had the art department make a little model of it. I put it on my Instagram if you want to see it. We got a little doll, and we put a model in, and we were just seeing. The problem is it gets into a lot of technical stuff when it comes to two-way glass, but we figured it out. You have to have a mix of two-way glass and real mirrors because otherwise the reflections decay. But that was, like, the biggest thing that was a technical challenge, but I think it also looks great. It looks kind of like a classic horror movie. I’m proud of that.

Ed Warren (Patrick Wilson) stands near the haunted Annabelle doll in ‘The Conjuring’ (2013).
Image via Warner Bros. Pictures

Bringing up the mirror is making me think of this. I fear you’ve been asked this a lot today, but I’m incredibly curious because I’ve been following this franchise since the beginning and I’ve looked into a lot of the Warrens’ work. I just heard that their home and their museum were sold. How does that make you feel? Does that make you concerned? CHAVES: I know. I hope they sent an instruction manual with that. There’s a whole rigmarole. You can’t just … Yeah, it makes me concerned.
‘Last Rites’ Brings ‘The Conjuring’ Family Together for a Reunion

Everyone had to be there.

I do want to ask about the very end of your movie, because again, as a longtime fan of the franchise, the wedding scene meant a whole lot to me when I saw a bunch of people from previous films pop up. Can you tell me a little bit about figuring out who would show up at that wedding? CHAVES: We invited everybody from every single Conjuring movie. Honestly, so much of it was, you know, we were shooting in England. Thankfully, we got the core members there. Even James [Wan]. I was begging James. I was like, “Come on, James! You gotta come out. We need you in here.” He’s like, “All right.” We had to drag him out there. And it’s so funny because James is so charming and amazing. I was like, “You’re great in front of the camera. I don’t know why you’re not jumping at this.” That was really fun to do. So many of those people I was meeting for the first time. I’m a huge Conjuring fan, just like everyone else, and to be able to meet everybody was such a pleasure. It was a great day. It was a great reunion for everybody. It was, again, a very nice payoff for a hardcore fan. I appreciated that.
Michael Chaves Reflects on How ‘The Conjuring’ Franchise Shaped His Career

“It’s been the greatest experience I could have ever asked for.”

Michael Chaves studying the script with Patrick Wilson and Vera Farmiga on the set of The Conjuring 3
Image via Warner Bros. Pictures

Looking back at your journey with this franchise and having made four films within it now, what is something, or maybe a few things, that make you think, “I am better off for having started my feature film career with The Conjuring universe?” CHAVES: It’s the people. Honestly, so much of even the jobs we do, it’s the friends you make at work, and the relationships you have. This is a series that started with just a group of amazing people, James and Peter [Safran] and Patrick and Vera and everybody around them who supported it, and it has grown. It’s always included some of the best people in the business, and that makes such a difference. It’s the people that you work with that make all the difference, and I’ve really enjoyed that. I’ve learned so much just working with them. And, of course, James is still the reigning master of horror. Like, an absolute legend. Also, Peter, an incredible master producer, now studio head, an incredibly smart, wonderful guy. Patrick and Vera, who are also filmmakers in their own sense. These movies are such team efforts and such team sports, and to be on this team, it’s changed my life. It’s been the greatest experience I could have ever asked for. The Conjuring: Last Rites releases in theaters September 5.

The Conjuring: Last Rites

Release Date

September 5, 2025

Runtime

135 Minutes

Director

Michael Chaves

Writers

David Leslie Johnson-McGoldrick, Ian B. Goldberg, Richard Naing, Carey Hayes, Chad Hayes, James Wan

Producers

Peter Safran, James Wan

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