Ghosts Season 4 is rapidly nearing completion with a mere few weeks standing between us and what promises to be a jam-packed finale. In Season 4, we’ve seen flashbacks to first meetings, the introduction of new ghosts, a reshuffling of the house, and the opening of Jay’s (Utkarsh Ambudkar) restaurant. This season has also shown us a whole new side of Flower (Sheila Carrasco). Following her big flashback episode revealing new details about her time in the cult, we’ve seen Flower find some clarity in her perma-fried state, showing she’s far more capable than anyone gives her credit for.
I recently sat down with Sheila Carrasco to discuss all things Season 4, including these new sides of Flower and what to expect from the upcoming Ghosts finale. She also spoke about what kind of law Flower would’ve been studying before she died, what she loves about Flower’s relationship with Thor (Devan Chandler Long), and which legendary actors she wants to see play Flower’s brother and former cult leader. We also discussed Flower’s relationship with Sasappis (Román Zaragoza), whom she has some advice for in an upcoming episode, the roommate reshuffle, what’s on her Flower playlist, and the girls’ night episode she wants in Season 5. You can read our full conversation below.
‘Ghosts’ Season 4 Finally Gave Us Another Glimpse Into Flower’s Past

“It was a really cool bit of history there.”

Image via CBS

COLLIDER: I think my favorite episode of the season so far is Flower’s cult flashback episode. What was it like to finally get to dive into that part of your backstory?
SHEILA CARRASCO: Oh, it was so enlightening. It was really wonderful to work with Will Greenberg, who played Bruce, because I think he brought so much natural charisma to the character, because he just has it in spades. But also because we get to see why Flower was so duped. He’s this fun, amazing cult leader for the women, at least, so you really see why she wants him to like her. She wants everyone there to like her. For me, it made so much sense, the ending of the episode, how she just wanted to belong. It really helped to paint the picture for that and to see a little bit of a glimpse of what it was that she really believed, which is so crazy — this meteorite. But it’s also not that crazy. Meteorites come to Earth, so, hey, I think we got some answers.
Yeah, especially in the heyday of the Space Race and everything. That absolutely makes sense. I also love that in that episode, we see more of Flower and the basement ghosts, and I love that they’re immediately ride or die for her, they listen to her when no one else is. Can you talk a bit about that connection, and maybe if we’ll see more of Flower teaming up with the basement ghosts?
CARRASCO: Oh, I hope so. First of all, Betsy Sodaro is so hilarious as Nancy and just such a wonderful person to act with on set. She’s a delight. And so are all of our other amazing cholera ghost actors. As an actor, I always love getting to do scenes with them. None of us get to do it that often, but it’s really nice. We actually got a glimpse of it in Season 3, Episode 1, at Flower’s “funeral,” that they actually thought that she was the kindest person, and she was always so nice to them. We had never actually seen that take place in the first two seasons, so it was a really cool bit of history there that was shared. So, to actually see a little bit of their camaraderie in this episode was really nice to play, and they just really came through for her. I mean, not for Jay, not for anyone else, but to them, this plan made a lot of sense. They were going to save people’s lives. I know that some of the fans may not have liked what we chose to do as characters, but in our defense, we literally thought we were saving people’s lives. And you know what? I’ll do that with the cholera ghosts any damn day.
Flower Has Some Good Advice For Sasappis in ‘Ghosts’ Season 4

“Flower is there for him in a very supportive way.”

Image via Paramount, CBS

Something I feel is very present in Flower is that she may not always be doing the right thing, but she always thinks that she’s doing the right thing. Especially the storyline with the Sasappis. She’s trying so hard to wingman him into getting laid. When I spoke to Román [Zaragoza] last week, he said that you are like a big sister to him on set, so I would love to hear more about building that connection and that relationship this season.
CARRASCO: It was just really natural for us. Román is one of my first friends on this show, and the first two seasons, before I had a baby and needed to just find a place closer to set, we both lived in the same neighborhood, hung out all the time, and really, he felt like family to me. The energy that he vibes at is very similar to mine, and he’s just a great guy to connect with and chill with. It made me feel like, “Oh, this is how I feel when I’m with my siblings.” It’s just easy.
Up until the Christmas episode, we had discovered that we had never had a two-person scene together, ever. Also, not only that, we had never really spoken to each other directly as characters. We’d had asides maybe next to each other, but not necessarily an actual tête-à-tête. So, I was always really anxious to find out, ‘What is this dynamic going to be between Sasappis and Flower?’ It could be anything. What if they’re frenemies? What if he’s got a grudge against her? So when the writers finally wrote us that scene together, and the ongoing bit that I give him a hard time for being a virgin, but truly, it’s out of love, because to me, there is no better way to spend your life than giving and receiving love, be it physically or spiritually. So, I just love that they made it about that because even though an older sister may not talk to her younger brother about this stuff, in our world, Flower and Sasappis do, and it felt very sibling-ish to me. It feels very sibling-ish. So, like I said, it was just very easy to slip right into that dynamic, and I hope we see more of it. In an upcoming episode, where Sasappis needs some advice, Flower is there for him in a very supportive way, so I’m excited to see that.
I’m excited too. That sounds great. I also really like that in Flower’s flashback episode, she’s so relatable in that, who hasn’t had a moment where they feel like they ruined everything?
CARRASCO: It keeps everybody up at night at 4 a.m. or in the shower, just like, “What did I do?!”
‘Ghosts’ Season 4 Is Showing New Sides of Flower

“It was such a treat to get these extra dimensions this season and layers and convictions.”

Image via CBS

I also love that since then, she’s gotten more and more confident, as well. We’ve seen Flower catch Hetty and Trevor twice now. I love her big monologue when she catches them in the room swap episode, and then her actually getting a win over them with the ice skates. What have you enjoyed about adding these new sides to Flower and her playing the counterbalance to that dynamic?
CARRASCO: Oh, I just love it. Whenever you can add nuance and multidimensions to a character, it’s a treat for both viewers and the actors playing the character, especially when there are some flaws. So, even though she messed up royally with Jay and the restaurant, and I still think she really needs to, and I hope she makes it up to them, people make mistakes, and Flower is no exception. It’s easy to sometimes play a character that just wants peace and love and is always happy for people and rooting for people, but those people don’t really exist. There’s always something underneath that they gotta work out and that they need help with. She needs help from the rest of the house to become a better person, to help her remember things, to help her piece together her past, or just to help her learn lessons and move forward, because that’s what people do.
It was such a treat to get these extra dimensions this season, and layers, and convictions. What does Flower not like? Okay, she doesn’t really like when people are virgins. [Laughs] She does not like being lied to. This [recent] episode was one of my favorites to play. It was a very well-done B-story, succinctly done. There wasn’t a lot that Flower was in, but the twists and turns were there and gave me so much to play with, even with the scenes I got to do. It was just so fun. What’s cool about Flower is that we’re finding out more and more what she’s capable of. Even though she’s not always capable, she is capable of being the smartest person in the room. She is capable of manipulating other people just as much, if not more than, Trevor and Hetty. But what’s interesting about Flower is that just because she can, it doesn’t mean that she will, or that she wants to, but she will if she has to.
“If you reach…”
CARRASCO: “If you reach, I will teach.” Yes, Samantha! That’s beautiful. I’ve got to remind the Joes about that because you really brought it full circle. I think that’s what’s so cool about Flower is if you need to be checked, she’s going to check you, but otherwise, she’s very live and let live. So, if you don’t come for her, hey, live your life.
I know that they have separated now, but I love that we also got a glimpse of Flower and Hetty as roommates. I feel like you and Rebecca [Wisocky] have gotten to do a lot more little peanut gallery moments this season. Can you talk a bit about the evolution of their relationship?
CARRASCO: It’s funny because a lot of those moments, especially in the back half of this season, are just because Rebecca and I wanted to stand next to each other because we love each other, and then it’s like, “Yeah, that works. Flower and Hetty, why don’t you two stand there,” and then we’ll powwow, like, “Oh, maybe we both think this, or we’ll walk in…” A lot of stuff gets cut, but we always have a moment before when we walk into a scene and it’s like, “Oh, maybe we were walking through the dining room and taking in the paintings together,” as fun little things friends would do.
I absolutely adore the relationship between Flower and Hetty, partly because Rebecca is a queeeen — and you can put, like, five vowels in the spelling of that when you publish. She’s such a wonderful, brilliant actress, and she’s also such a fierce, loving friend. Anytime we get to do stuff together as Flower and Hetty, who are such opposites, it’s always so fun. I hope we get to see more. I know Flower and Thor are now rooming together, but I hope that we get to see more of them as maybe not roommates, but maybe Flower’s just always barging in because she can’t let go of the roommate days. I don’t know, I just want more of it. Also, the ladies of the cast have always pitched some kind of girls’ night episode because, greedily, we just all want to do scenes together because we very rarely, the four of us, get to do scenes together as just us. So we were like, “Can we please just have a girls’ night sleepover?” We don’t have to talk about boys, or we can. Whatever!
I had that same thought in this recent episode when Alberta, Hetty, and Flower are all watching TV together. I was like, “This is so rare!” We need it more often.
CARRASCO: Yes! I love that, too. It’s funny, when we film those, we don’t know what it is we’re supposed to be watching, and I think it’s so funny that it was an otter documentary because that’s something the three of us probably would watch.
Sheila Carrasco Is Glad Thor & Flower Aren’t Attached at the Hip on ‘Ghosts’

“It’s not like all of a sudden they’re only with each other always.”

Image via Bertrand Calmeau/CBS

Speaking of Flower and Thor, I love that they’ve been this steady couple in the house this season, and now they’re sharing a room. Is there anything that surprised you about their relationship this season?
CARRASCO: Oh, that’s a great question. I think what’s cool about them is they’ve both come through a lot this season, and they haven’t always been side by side going through them. There have been storylines, like the restaurant storyline, or maybe it was the “Ruffle Kerfuffle.” He was in that whole storyline with Elias, where he was thinking about going to hell, and I wasn’t there to talk with him. I think it’s cool that they’re not super co-dependent. They are into each other, but they’ve also been living in the house together for, like, 50 years, so it’s not like all of a sudden they’re only with each other always. That’s kind of cool, because you can’t say that about a lot of people. You certainly can’t say it about me and my husband. We’re co-dependent as hell, we’re together all the time.
Relatable. I want to spend every minute with my wife. I also really love the detail in the flashback episode where Thor mentions that Flower has been teaching him Spanish. I love that you got to speak Spanish in the scene. How did you feel to get to include that part of yourself in Flower and develop that a little more?
CARRASCO: I love it. We have a wonderful writer who is of Mexican descent, Kira Kalush, in our room, and I know she was really representing me in that writers’ room because I think she was the one that pitched that idea and wrote it in. I’m so grateful for her for that because I got so much love from our Latino fans and just our fans in general. It’s really cool when you see a character that maybe you know or don’t know where they’re from, but like most people, everyone’s from somewhere. And, yeah, she knows Spanish, and so she does speak it sometimes. Why wouldn’t she? In this case, it’s really cool that she speaks it when she’s really losing her stuff. So, I absolutely loved being able to do that.
I love that the fans appreciate it and want to see more of it, and also, just my family in Chile loves it too. Now, they get to watch the show because it’s available on Netflix in Chile. It’s always awesome when I get to represent. Just like my last name, Flower Susan Montero, that’s my abuela’s maiden name. We’re the familia Carrasco-Montero. So, it just means a lot whenever I can bring any of my heritage to the role, and I really hope I get to do it more. It helps so much that our writers’ room is chock-full of people who really represent us, the spectrum of our cast, which is very diverse, and it’s super important. This is a shining example of why that is. You get so much more complexity to story when you have more points of view represented.
Exactly. It’s such a small moment, but it adds so much depth to those characters.
CARRASCO: Yeah, for sure. And comedy, too, because it should be funny. We don’t have to just always write stuff in just because, but it added a wonderful comedic moment. To me, that’s some of the best writing in comedy, when it can be both plot and a joke and character building.
Sheila Carrasco Reveals What She Thinks Flower Was Studying at Law School

“She’s in it for the money, obviously.”

Image via CBS

I am such a playlist person. I make music playlists for everything. We’ve got a pretty good idea of Flower’s music taste with her preference for Fleetwood Mac and David Crosby. I’m curious, do you have a Flower playlist, and if so, what’s on it?
CARRASCO: Oh, great question again! I really love Joni Mitchell and Joan Baez. I really love Joan Baez. I love her voice. Gotta love Joni, too. I love folk music a lot. So, definitely, I think a lot of that for Flower. I know that she’s written as more of a rock and roll band groupie. To me, at least, for her, it probably started with folk music. Then, sometimes when I’m getting in the mood — and I know that this might not be completely period-appropriate — I play The Zombies a lot. I love The Zombies. I think it’s such a vibe. So, yeah, I love that music. Then, obviously, me personally, I listen to a lot more kinds of stuff.
I feel like Flower would really want to go to Coachella.
CARRASCO: I think so. I think she would show everybody how it’s done. And she would be the queen of Burning Man, for sure.
I also loved Flower’s line about Paw Patrol this season. I laugh every time I watch that episode. What else do you think Flower spends her TV time on?
CARRASCO: I would love an episode where she discovers The Last Dance and she finds out about Michael Jordan from the ‘90s Bulls and is just like, “Excuse me? He exists?” Because I think she watches modern-day basketball a lot, and the NBA. She probably is a fan, so I think she watches a lot of basketball, but I would really like it if she could really dive into the archives of the greats — the greatest, I should say.
With us getting to see more of her Susan/lawyer side this year, I’m curious if you thought about what kind of law Flower was going to practice when she was in law school, and maybe where she went to school?
CARRASCO: Yes, I have thought about it! Oh, that’s a good question. I don’t have as many thoughts on where she went to school. I would love it if it were a very great school, and there’s a lot of those. I feel like maybe someone had mentioned Cornell or something like that. But I think what she was focused in, I was thinking environmental law would make a lot of sense, or immigration, wherever she could help people or the planet. Absolutely. Hands down.
That’s such a good choice.
CARRASCO: She’s in it for the money, obviously.
Right! [Laughs]
Will We Ever Meet Flower’s Family on ‘Ghosts’?

“She never really got to say goodbye.”

Image via CBS

We’ve gotten a lot of family moments this season, especially with Sam and Pete and Alberta and now Trevor. When are we going to see some of Fower’s family come to the BNB? I know she’s got brothers, and maybe she’s got young nephews and nieces, extended family.
CARRASCO: I’m a big family person. I’m the youngest of four. I have, like, 60 cousins in Chile and in the States. I love my siblings more than anything, so to be able to see her brother, or any of her other siblings, and their children, I would just love that. I think because we’ve seen the brother through his emails before in Season 2, it would make a lot of sense for me, especially with her storyline, that she never really got to say goodbye, which is so heartbreaking to me that she left for the cult and he tried to stop her, and she didn’t understand at the time he was just trying to protect her. So, A., I really want to see her seeing him. I would love it if it were a very aged-up Edward James Olmos, or any kind of great actor to play that role as a Vietnam vet coming to Woodstone, maybe to give something to where she died, bring something, pay some kind of tribute.
Then B., I would really, through that or with a flashback, like to know what she was running from when she went to the cult. I know that grad school happened in between, but I think if you have a really strong, secure, safe family, even with the trauma of losing your fiancé, you have your family you can go to. So, why did she go to the cult? I just would really like to know what she was running from. What was it about that family that made her feel like she couldn’t go to them for help? I think that’s all really fun stuff to find out in future seasons, and I really hope we do.
I love that Flower is that friend who will just drop crazy amounts of lore about her past in conversation, like it’s nothing. Do you have anything that we haven’t necessarily seen on screen that you just believe about Flower as a personal headcanon?
CARRASCO: Oh, yeah, I have a running joke with Brandon [Scott Jones] that I think I only clued him into maybe last season, where I think that Flower thinks Isaac’s always carried a torch for her. Sometimes she’s like, “Sorry, Isaac, I’m with Thor now. Maybe one day.” And there was a scene we were filming, maybe it was in the finale or before the finale, where it’s at the very end, and everyone is celebrating something really huge in the living room. The whole cast is there and all yelling up and down, and I find myself right next to Brandon, and I just grab him and I start to make out with him, and he’s like, “Ah!” And it made us laugh so much. So, not that that’s necessarily helpful to anyone, but it really makes me laugh.
Sheila Carrasco Agrees We Need More Flashback Episodes on ‘Ghosts’

“I would just love it if we did more full-on episodes that just live in flashbacks for a while.”

Image via Bertrand Calmeau/CBS

I really love when the show does flashbacks. I think there’s so much opportunity to tell so many fun stories that inform their present-day shenanigans. What are some flashbacks that you would like to see in future seasons?
CARRASCO: I really want to see more of Flower in law school. I just want to know more about Susan. I want to wear those clothes, and I just want to see what she was studying. I think ‘60s flashbacks are so awesome. Our production designer and costume designers and hair and makeup artists do an amazing job of creating them, like they do all of our looks. Definitely that.
Then, much like the Ruffle Kerfuffle episode with Isaac, I would just love it if we did more full-on episodes that just live in flashbacks for a while. I think that’s such a cool device that they introduced this season, and the framing device could be that, “Oh, it pertains to the lesson that they’re trying to teach in the current day,” or maybe it’s just a whole flashback episode. I think that there’s really no limit to it. That would be awesome for every single character. I like any flashback, too, of the house, of the property before the house was built, so Thor and Sass, for sure.
And what I love that the BBC’s Ghosts does a lot, and we haven’t really done this before, is I would love to see the ghosts that existed there before Sam showed up that got sucked off that we lived with for maybe 50 years, maybe 100 years, and had to say goodbye to. Because we’ve heard tell of them, like Flat Maria. That would be so cool to see in other flashbacks of like, “Wait, who’s that?” “Oh, yeah, that’s that ghost that was here for 200 years. I miss her.”
I really like that. Also, there’s an episode of the BBC series where everybody plays somebody else in Kitty’s flashback, so I think something like that would be fun, where all the ghosts are playing people in each other’s lives.
CARRASCO: That is so fun. We’re really all great character actors, and we can do so many different kinds of characters. Some people maybe play their part a little closer to who they are, but everyone has a huge range, and that would be so fun to see. I remember when the show went to series and we were all really excited, thinking maybe we’d also get to play the cholera ghosts like they do on the BBC. Now, I completely see why they don’t do that. Because when you’re making 22 episodes for time, there’s just no time to play all of those parts and do the turnaround and make your day. So, I appreciate that, but creatively, that would be so fun.
‘Ghosts’ Needs a Cameo From One of Its Famous Fans

“An aged-up Mark Hamill could play Bruce.”

Image via CBS

You’ve been renewed for two more seasons, which is amazing. I’m so excited. What’s something on your Flower wish list for Seasons 5 and 6?
CARRASCO: What we’ve talked about. I would love it if present-day Bruce came to Woodstone and Flower could give him a piece of her mind somehow. Maybe he’s on acid, and she’s actually able to communicate with him. I would really love it if Mark Hamill, super-aged up because he’s not old enough for it, but an aged-up Mark Hamill could play Bruce. I think that would be just so fun, because I know he likes the show, and it would be a really great character to see him in.
Absolutely. With Rose [McIver] jumping behind the camera this year, I’m wondering, do you have any interest in directing or writing or producing at some point?
CARRASCO: Actually, yeah. It’s funny you ask because this week’s episode that’s airing, I am not in, but it was really great because it’s the week that I shadowed our director, Chris Gernon. She’s a legendary director from the UK, and it was such an incredible experience watching her work and asking her a million questions. She was amazing. She’s one of our greatest directors. We get to work with her every year, and we’re so lucky. So, yes, the short answer is yes. I would love to direct one day. I think that it’s going to be a bit of a road to get there, because I do think I have a lot to learn, and there are a lot of people who want to direct and do this, and so I want to be competitive with them, and I want to earn all my jobs and just do the best job I can. So, I’m going to take classes and all of that. My focus in college at theater for my BFA was directing and set design, but of course, that was theater directing, so while I feel very confident about working with actors, telling a story on camera is very different. I’m excited to learn more and shadow more.
I love that! This cast really reminds me of the Star Trek TNG cast in a weird way, but most of them got their turn behind the camera eventually on that series, so I would love to see each of you direct an episode.
CARRASCO: We would love that. It’s not an easy job. That’s one of the things I learned. I really have such an appreciation for the people that do it, and I have such a great appreciation for our writers, as well, because sitting behind the camera is just such a wonderful experience. I think every actor should try to get to do it and be able to do it. Ultimately, what we’re all building is all about storytelling, so all of our jobs go hand in hand, and it’s really cool to see how that actually works behind the camera.
The ‘Ghosts’ Season 4 Finale Will Be “Different” and “Terrifying”

“It’s going to leave you nervous.”

Custom image by Tania Hussain

Lastly, we’re only a few episodes away now. What can you say about the season finale? I know it’s going to be jam-packed.
CARRASCO: Yes, that’s right. The season finale is going to give you a huge surprise at the end, and it’s going to leave you nervous about the future of one or more residents. What I’ll say is that it’s not going to be like any other cliffhanger we’ve had, so I don’t want people thinking, “Oh, that means somebody could…” It’s different and equally terrifying.
I love that. That is so exciting. I cannot wait.
CARRASCO: Next year, for Flower, my hope is that she can really make it up to Jay. I think that she is trying, and I would love it if she could take an active role in trying to remember lessons learned. I think that it’s actually possible, which we’ve seen glimpses of with Susan, as we like to call her. I think that Susan’s in there, and she’s capable of a lot more than we know, so it’s going to be really cool to see what happens with Flower.
I feel like there’s some stuff there where maybe her knowledge of law and contracts, potentially, could come in handy at some point.
CARRASCO: I think so, too. I also think she didn’t get to finish law school, so it’s never too late. It’s never too late for anybody. So, who knows?
The next episode of Ghosts airs this Thursday on CBS at 8:30 PM ET. You can watch previous episodes on Paramount+ in North America and Netflix around the world.

Ghosts (US)

Release Date

October 7, 2021

Network

CBS

Directors

Christine Gernon, Jaime Eliezer Karas, Katie Locke O’Brien, Nick Wong, Jude Weng, Pete Chatmon, Richie Keen, Alex Hardcastle, Kimmy Gatewood, Matthew A. Cherry, Cortney Carrillo

Writers

Emily Schmidt, John Timothy, Lauren Bridges, Sophia Lear, Guy Endore-Kaiser, Rishi Chitkara, Julia Harter, Skander Halim, Zora Bikangaga

Rose McIver

Samantha Arondekar

Utkarsh Ambudkar

Jay Arondekar