After haunting Woodstone mansion for the last two decades, Trevor Lefkowitz (Asher Grodman) got the shock of his afterlife on the latest episode of Ghosts. In “Pinkus Returns,” Trevor’s old pal Adam Pinkus (played by frequent Ghosts director Richie Keen) returns to Woodstone 25 years after Trevor fatefully gave him his pants (and boxers) and revealed that his daughter Abby’s (Gideon Adlon) biological father is actually Trevor. In a desperate attempt to convince Pinkus to tell Abby about him during their trip, Trevor accidentally sends her the news himself and must pull off a whole new hero move to save their relationship.
I recently sat down with Grodman to talk all things T-Money — and T-Daddy — including when he learned that Trevor would be a father and how his sociable energy makes him more suited to being a parent than you’d expect. We also spoke about how Trevor and the other ghosts are all just big kids themselves and how the conflict in this episode affects his relationship with Sam. During our wide-ranging conversation, he also spoke about the future of H-Money and Trevor’s “combustible relationship” with Hetty (Rebecca Wisocky), as well as Trevor’s taste in music and romantic comedies, and which piece of Ghosts memorabilia he wants to take home with him. He also delved into Trevor’s connection to the world of the living, his hopes to direct a future episode, and what he wants to see in Seasons 5 and 6.
Your Favorite Ghosts Will Continue To Deal With Parenthood Like Children

“It’s funny because it kind of sits in Trevor, juxtaposed against parts of him that are really aligned with this and parts of him that are antithetical.”

Image via CBS

COLLIDER: This episode, we get the revelation that Trevor is a dad and he has a daughter, and that just makes perfect sense to me. What was your reaction when you first got the script, and what does it mean to you to add this to Trevor’s story?
ASHER GRODMAN: I knew that we were going to do it, or at least I suspected we were going to do it, in the spring of last year because, our showrunners, Joe Port and Joe Wiseman, invited us to come into the writers’ room if we had thoughts or ideas and to hear what they were thinking, which was so helpful and wonderful. So, they mentioned it to me at that point, just that they were playing with the idea of Trevor having a son or daughter, and I was thrilled. I remember thinking early on when we did Episode 5, which is the Pete’s Wife episode, when Trevor believes for a hot second that he is a father — the whole DILF episode — I remember when we shot that, thinking, “Oh, well, I guess we’re not going to touch this again for a while,” because it was just a joke, and I just figured we’d let it breathe. But I guess it’s been a while. It’s been four years, so I’m excited.
There’s something fun about it because who Trevor is is at once completely antithetical to being a parent, but at the same time, he has this, just with the partying and the misogyny and all that kind of stuff, living life for the experience and the joy and the thrills of all that life can offer you, but at the same, and it’s really, I think, one of the core elements of him, he wants everyone to be together and wants his loyalty to his friends and his found family. There is something very social about Trevor that I think does lend itself to being a parent. I’m not a parent, but I would imagine. It’s funny because it kind of sits in Trevor, juxtaposed against parts of him that are really aligned with this and parts of him that are antithetical.
I love the reaction when he first finds out. You somehow perfectly capture that new parent feeling of being happy and terrified at the same time. I also really love that he, like the other ghosts who are parents — Hetty, Pete, and Thor didn’t really get to raise their kids either, so I wonder if Trevor will maybe relate to them more in the future as a parent.
GRODMAN: Yes, I would imagine that we’re going to play with that and that’ll come down the pipeline. Pete and Hetty did have time. Pete was probably a better father than Hetty was a mother, I would imagine, but maybe not. I don’t know. One of the fun things about the show, of course, is that, at its core, it’s both a show about death and a show about children, because we’re all basically locked in this house. Mom has locked us in the house, and it’s like kids in their rooms. So, processing big things like being a parent, and stuff like that, it also comes with the maturity level of a kid who is left to their own. So, I am sure we will deal with issues of parenthood in the most immature ways possible.
Grodman Is Grateful for the Conflict in His ‘Ghosts’ Relationships

“It’s a very combustible relationship.”

Image via CBS

This is also a really good episode for Trevor and Sam’s relationship. She is normally so on board with his crazy schemes, but she says no this time, and then he takes it way too far, but then they get this moment where they come back together at the end, that really sweet scene with Abby. Can you talk a bit about the evolution of Sam and Trevor’s friendship?
GRODMAN: I kind of feel like, of all the ghosts, the one who has the least close relationship with Sam is probably Trevor just because he starts by trying to get her to kill herself just so they can fool around and keep it casual. They don’t have very much in common, and yet — and I think this has happened with all the ghosts — she does go out of her way to help him many, many times, whether it was with his parents or even Jay helping him with the work retreat. There was something with this episode I was particularly excited about regarding Sam, some of the parent [stuff] had a resonance for Sam because she came from a broken home, as well, or at least Trevor was discovering that he was a child of divorce, but there was something different in this. I think because of what Trevor does, his actions from Sam’s point of view are irreparable. There is no way back for Sam with this text. The egg on her face is so bad that it’s just not good. Trevor so crosses the line here.
I remember talking to our writers about this, and on set, there’s something very exciting about Sam saying no because she really does everything for these ghosts. Watching Sam push back on us, I think, is really exciting. Then I was thrilled that Trevor then pushed back even more. Having them kind of butt heads was a lot of fun, and a shade of Sam we don’t get to see very often, but that’s really fun to play with because it does highlight how limited these ghosts are as they deal with very big issues and very big feelings. Trevor, I think more than any ghost, is really still so close to the real world, to the living world, and because of his power, can still interact with it. He’s dead, but he hasn’t really let go yet, and so the extent to which he needs Sam, he needs her a lot, so for her to push back against him, I just think is very exciting from a storytelling standpoint.
Speaking of friendships, I have to ask about my absolute favorite storyline from the season: the H-Money Power Friends situation. I love that the show finally acknowledged their abrupt breakup, with Trevor confronting Hetty in the only way she’d understand. I’m really enjoying this new, very intentional journey for them. What can you tease about her relationship, and where would you like to see it go?
GRODMAN: I can tease that we’re going to keep being allies and enemies at the same time. What’s fun about those two, and it’s one of the reasons why Rebecca [Wisocky] and I really from the pilot, or if not the pilot shortly thereafter, were lobbying for something like that, for those two to be entangled. A huge thank you to Joe Port and Joe Wiseman, our showrunners, for being down to clown with us on this. For us, it was never about romance, really. I mean that may be where it ends up, but it was all the other stuff that’s so exciting — their egos, their pride, how they think about money, and so they have a hierarchy in life. In those, they’re so similar. And yet when it comes to sex and how they see the world in terms of what should be allowed, what should not be allowed, they’re very different.
There’s just so much room for conflict. It’s a very combustible relationship. The idea of them colluding against each other and then colluding with each other, and there’s just so much pent-up passion in both of these characters, it’s so fun to play. I think that the Trevor/Hetty dynamic has become one of the most colorful in the show, so we want to keep playing with it, and I hope we will. I think we will. I think the H-Money Nation will be in for some treats.
I’m really enjoying seeing them get outsmarted by Flower not once, but twice now. She’s such a great counterbalance to those two. It’s really fun.
GRODMAN: I agree. Sheila Carrasco is a genius, as is Rebecca, who plays Hetty, and I love that storyline that Rose [McIver] directed, actually, of Trevor and Hetty colluding and Flower being onto them. It’s so fun to see Flower, who is, of course, in six realities at any given time, suddenly turn on you and be crystal clear about what’s happening. There’s some really fun stuff happening [in last week’s episode] between Trevor and Flower. They’re going to battle over capitalism. It’s super fun. We get to see that other side of Flower, which is great and really dynamic.
‘Ghosts’ Asher Grodman Reveals What He’d Add to a Trevor Playlist

“He definitely would have been a Biggie and Tupac guy.”

Image via John Russo

In the next episode, we see Pete meeting a ghost who has a Walkman, and I’m curious which album both you and Trevor would want to be stuck with forever.
GRODMAN: Trevor feels like a Dave Matthews guy, so I would say definitely a Dave Matthews guy. What would I want? Oh my god, that’s hard. I’d probably take a Springsteen thing. Something like that.
I also love that Trevor brings in Green Day with the little montage at the end. I’m such a playlist person. I make playlists all the time for when I’m writing. Do you have a playlist for Trevor, and if you do, what’s on it?
GRODMAN: Oh, wow! God, I should have a playlist for Trevor, shouldn’t I? Off the top of my head, I mean, Chumbawamba would have to be on there, some Dave Matthews would have to be on there. I’m sure there’s some Limp Bizkit on there. I’m sure he’d have some ‘80s stuff when he was younger. This is a really good question. I feel like at the tail end of his life, I believe Eminem would have shown up, and I bet Trevor would have loved Eminem, like Marshall Mathers. I’m sure Kurt Cobain was on there. I’m missing a lot, but you get the vibe. I could see Trevor as a Phish guy. He definitely would have been a Biggie and Tupac guy.

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Zaragoza also discusses Sasappis’ relationships with Flower, Thor, and Hetty, expanding his ghost power, and wanting to direct an episode!

I love Trevor’s little “I’m a cinephile” moment in last week’s episode, and I love his whole rom-com obsession. Aside from The Cutting Edge, which is a given, what do you think Trevor’s Letterboxd top four would be?
GRODMAN: I’m going to make Trevor’s rom-coms my rom-coms, because I think my rom-coms are top-notch. I’m going to say You’ve Got Mail, which I think was in the ‘90s, Grosse Pointe Blank — Trevor would have loved Grosse Pointe Blank; I think that is right in his sweet spot — he would have loved Keeping the Faith. It’s Ben Stiller and Ed Norton, and it’s a priest and a rabbi, and they’re fighting over Jenna Elfman. This is less of a rom-com, but this would have been absolutely up Trevor’s alley: he would have been a big Jerry Maguire guy.
With Trevor trying to get his hands on The Cutting Edge memorabilia, what is a prop from Ghosts or any TV show or movie that you would like to take home?
GRODMAN: I know it’s so small, but I want Trevor’s money clip when we’re done with this whole thing. He has a little T-Money money clip that was in the pants that he gave to Pinkus. And a prop from anything? God, wow! Whatever I tell you, in five minutes I’m going to think of something so much better. You have me thinking about ‘90s movies, so I’ll do the flashy thing from Men in Black.
Trevor’s Still Got a Hand in the World of the Living on ‘Ghosts’

“The one who’s probably the least ready or the least clamoring to get sucked off is Trevor.”

Image via CBS

That’s such a fun choice. We’ve had a good handful of really great Trevor episodes this season. I really love “The Work Retreat,” I love the snail episode where he thinks he’s about to get sucked off. What’s it been like this season to lean more into Trevor’s connections to the living world?
GRODMAN: It’s great. I love it because I think when the show is at its best, and hats off to Joe Port and Joe Wiseman for this, and all of our writers, is when each of the characters, their specific sensibility, is unique. This happens quite a bit when I can look at a scene and take out the character names and guess who’s saying what. Something that I think is very specific to Trevor, and it’s a mix of being the most recently dead and his power that he can touch things, is that he has that very real connection to the living world, or at least comparatively with the other ghosts. So, Trevor is still at a point where I feel like he hasn’t completely come to terms with what it is to be dead, because much of the life that he left behind is still flourishing before his eyes. His parents are still out there, his brother’s still out there. Now he’s got a job, and he’s making more money than anyone else in this house by a significant margin, including Sam and Jay. So, he’s still living a pretty full life.
When we have those moments of Trevor, with his very limited ability, trying to affect the real world, it is very fun to play with him because it is literally stretching over that division of the living and the dead. It can often bring with it an emotional punch. So, whether it’s the people he’s working with and what his legacy was, or if it’s just his dog, and I think we did a lot of that this season. And of course, with the most recent episode, it’ll be the largest imprint that he’s had on the world, obviously. So, it’s something that only Trevor can do, and it’s something that I’m very grateful that we continue to play with because I often think that of all the characters, the one who’s probably the least ready or the least clamoring to get sucked off is Trevor. He’s still having an impact. I mean, he was on dating apps not long ago. And the more that our world becomes a virtual world, the easier it’s going to be for Trevor to do anything and everything he wants! AI and Trevor are going to have such a great time together.
Oh no! That sounds like a nightmare. [Laughs] With Rose jumping behind the camera this season, I’m curious if you have hopes to direct an episode in the next few seasons.
GRODMAN: Yes. I would love nothing more than to direct on our show. Rose did an amazing job. She’s so good. It is particularly fun for us because it’s a very unique show. There are so many of us ghosts, and there does end up being a visual language, and you’re dealing with a lot of people who work a certain way and have a certain dynamic. I like to think that we’re a very warm and welcoming set, and I like to think that that comes across on the screen because we’re all having such a good time.
As a director, I’ve been lucky enough to have opportunities outside of the show, and I’ve been very lucky and humbled by a lot of the things that have come, with the film I directed with the Jacksonville Jaguars and winning Tribeca with that, and getting a Cannes Lion with that. It’s been a wild thing. Then this year, I just directed something for Paramount, which was fun for their upfronts, so that’s been super cool. Things have been building, building, and building, so yeah, my dream of dreams is definitely to direct on our show. Part of the fun of it is I know all these actors so well, and I know what they like and what they don’t like, so getting to be behind a camera with them and kind of feed them what I know they like and then watch them blossom with that would be such a thrill. So, I’m hoping!
Asher Grodman Teases an “Unexpected” Season 4 Finale

“There are so many great seeds that Joe and Joe and the writers’ room have planted.”

Image via CBS

Fingers crossed! You guys have been renewed for two seasons, which is great. What’s on your wishlist for Trevor? What’s the big thing you want to manifest for Seasons 5 and 6?
GRODMAN: See, this is very tricky because if I say it, it probably won’t happen because it’ll be all over the internet. So, I think I’ll just say that I want to keep playing with these brilliant things we’ve established. I love that he has a job. I’m curious to see what that means for someone who has to put in that much effort to keep the job going. The job opens up so many fun story doors for us. Again, he’s making more money than anyone, and maybe not paying taxes — I don’t know — so, that’s so much fun. Having Gideon back would be such a thrill. Gideon, who, of course, she and Odessa are sisters! Stephanie and my daughter [being] sisters is pretty funny. So, it’d be great to have her back and do more with that. There are so many great seeds that Joe and Joe and the writers’ room have planted, so I’d love to just keep playing with it. And of course, there is that very fun and combustible dynamic in the Trevor/Hetty world that I would love to continue playing with and fighting within, and having all the different dynamics that can play out.
Lastly, to tease the finale in just one or two words, what can you say? What can we expect?
GRODMAN: All of us will be involved, and it’s going to be very unexpected.
Ghosts airs on CBS on Thursdays at 8:30 PM ET.

Ghosts (US)

Release Date

October 7, 2021

Network

CBS

Directors

Christine Gernon, Jaime Eliezer Karas, Katie Locke O’Brien, Nick Wong, Jude Weng, Pete Chatmon, Richie Keen, Alex Hardcastle, Kimmy Gatewood, Matthew A. Cherry, Cortney Carrillo

Writers

Emily Schmidt, John Timothy, Lauren Bridges, Sophia Lear, Guy Endore-Kaiser, Rishi Chitkara, Julia Harter, Skander Halim, Zora Bikangaga

Rose McIver

Samantha Arondekar

Utkarsh Ambudkar

Jay Arondekar